What Recruiters Look For (And How To Attract Them)

Tom Powner, CEO Career Thinker and Felipe Cofino, VP, HR and Organizational Development, Signal Financial FCU join Annette Richmond, Certified Master Resume Writer and principal career intelligence Resume Writing, to discuss what recruiters look for in candidates and how you can attract them. 

Don't miss this opportunity to learn what recruiters look from from a corporate / executive recruiter and a contingency / external recruiter. 

Topics include:
✔️ What recruiters look for in candidates 
✔️ How jobseekers can get their attention on LinkedIn 
✔️ Tips to improve your LinkedIn profile 
✔️ Why researching employers is essential
✔️ What they look for on resumes 
✔️ Thoughts on candidate videos 

Smarter Career Moves LinkedIn Live Show (Previously Recorded, Audio Only) 

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👋 Smarter Career Moves Club on Clubhouse 

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Thank you for listening, I hope you found this episode insightful and relevant. If you're a coach, consultant, or entrepreneur, or just want to dive more deeply into content marketing. I hope you'll join me on my new podcast, Content Marketing School.

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(Previously recorded, Live Show)

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Transcript

Annette (00:04):

So hi out there. Good afternoon. It's Friday afternoon at 2:30, and I'm so excited to be here today with my two friends and colleagues who are both recruiters, one comes at it from a corporate background and the other one from a contingency background. And if you do have any questions, please do put them in the comments and we will be able to see them. I have some questions and I have some questions that were actually posted on LinkedIn. So let's get started. Felipe why don't you start and just introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you.

Felipe  (00:41):

Sure. And thank you for inviting me here. This is a great opportunity. My name is Felipe Cofino. I am the VP of HR and talent development for Signal Financial Federal Credit Union based out of the DC, Maryland Virginia area and before I was in the banking and finance world, I was in the hospitality world for about 25 years, 23 years. And basically throughout my career, I've always been very passionate about recruitment and helping people find jobs. it's something that every job I've ever had always been close to my chest and it made sure that I get the part of recruitment and every job I held and I found I enjoyed it. I was good at it. And I really get satisfaction of helping people find that right fit for that right culture with that right company. so, and along the way, I've become a career coach, a LinkedIn coach, and I help out with resumes and interview skills. and this was part of my passion. So a little bit about me.

Annette (01:36):

Great. Thank you, Tom.

Tom (01:39):

Tom, I'm the owner and founder of Career. Thinker dot com. It's a boutique company. We have three recruiters. We recruit for national companies and [inaudible], which is so we get to see the struggle, both sides. I started kind of thinking in 2010 when I left corporate America and like Felipe, I had a long career in sales, sales, operations, and human resources, and I decided I needed to do something different. And I reshaped my career into career thinker and similar, similar passions, you help people find the next right fit for them. So that's a little bit about me.

Annette (02:18):

Great, great. So, okay, so let's just jump right into it. One of the things that candidates want to know is, what do you look for in them? When you're, when you're looking at, just generally, what do you look for when you're looking at candidates? And then I'm going to ask you each, if, if you're a different takes on this, you're a little bit different being that you're come from this at a little bit of different perspective. So you can just work, we've all kind of moderated together. So please feel free to just, jump in. I'm pretty casual here. Oh,

Tom (02:53):

You're talking about what we look for in a resume.

Annette (02:57):

No, no, just In the candidate generally that, , you, you look at the candidate, , the resume, the LinkedIn profile, and when you meet the person, what are some things that make you say this, this is a good candidate. I mean, is it, engagement, energy background?

Felipe  (03:15):

Well, I can, I, can you ahead?

Tom (03:19):

They have to be able to do the job. For the most part, I mean, there's some types of jobs where the, training could get some with a quick vote, depending on the type of job they have to do the job, be able to do the job first. And then it comes down to either the right person fit. I mean so that's not a big answer, but there's a lot that's packed into that answer. Okay.

Felipe  (03:41):

I would just add you, I think, looking at it from the holistic point of, from the resume to the person, sort off with attention to detail, making sure that that first impression that you don't have errors or grammatical errors or spelling errors in your own resume or that your cover letter says, I love to join ABC company and you're applying for XYZ company. But as far as characteristics, I look for someone who wants to condition who's hungry, who gets excited when they talk about a certain aspect of the job and you interview somebody, what I'm talking about, they, they may be a very calm about something. And all of a sudden it will tell me about when you work on this project. And it also, they light up and their eyes get open wide and they get very passionate. That's what I'm looking for. Someone who's hungry want to contribute, who wants to be a team player. It's not all about themselves. And somebody who's still very hungry to learn. , I'm not looking for someone that thinks they know it all, but they saw that hunger, the desire to grow and learn as well as share what they've learned with all of them.

Annette (04:40):

No, it sounds like it's a lot about, about energy. And I would just briefly mention, I did work for very briefly and I'll never forget talking to a candidate. I was recruiting for social media. And when I got the candidate on the phone, everything looked great and I was talking to her and she just could not be less interested in what I was saying. And I asked her, , are you interested in this job? She's like, well, not really. I really rather do something else. And , obviously I could tell immediately. And do you get that sense when you're talking to people, you can tell if they're going through the motions or they're really interested Tom, you're shaking your head. Do you want to talk about that first?

Tom (05:16):

Yeah. Especially if you're going to cold call, you get a resume and call somebody in and the way to answer the phone. And that's typically when you get the real personality, when answer the phone, they don't know who you are. And it sounded like you woke him up at 1:30 in the afternoon right from the, get-go the energy of the person you want positive people in your team, no matter what they do in a team, they need to be positive about it. They need to want to work for your company. So yeah, typically very shortly you could tell someone the right person fit. I feel like in most cases,

Felipe  (05:44):

Yeah, there, there are definitely some red flags that stand out, I will say, whenever I say somebody, well, tell me why you applied for this position. I just want a job. That is the worst thing you could ever tell me. I just want to get, I get that personally, when you're looking for a job, you just want a job. So I respect that, but don't tell that somebody when you're in an interview, because they want to hear why you want their job, that they have at their company. And I just want any job. That's somebody who doesn't have a lot of direction. It seems like, and they might question, or you could be committed or are you going to say until just a better job comes along? So that's a big tell for me.

Annette (06:21):

So, so Felipe, let's go a little more into that. Are you looking for someone that, resonates with your company? They've done research and they, how does that play into it?

Felipe  (06:33):

That is always something that is an added bonus. I think it, it makes them stand out in the interview because it two things, one, it saves me time from having to share all that information about the company, because let's face it. We are selling the company to them as well as they are selling themselves to us. And so for me, it's one of those things where if you really are focusing on the individual and they are trying to prove itself in the right way, I think that really comes across very positively. And I forgot the last part of that question you had, I'm sorry.

Annette (07:03):

No, just does it make a difference if they have that research and they they're, they say they believe in the mission or they liked something or whatever it is?.

Felipe  (07:12):

Yeah. The research part is, I think is so key because especially if there's something about the research that did that resonates with them, that's what we want, going back to what Tom said about being the right fit. You want somebody who has similar type of mentality and values and work ethic, ideally, but that right fit. Sometimes it's just having that passion for, for wanting to do something and do it well. And I think at the end of the day, if you find that person that has that, that energy and that has that desire and they've researched the company and there's something about that job that really resonates with them or about the company culture that resonates with them. That to me stands out that makes them stand out because they're excited.

Annette (07:49):

Okay, great. Thank you. Sorry I started to jump in there. I didn't mean to cut you off. So Tom since you're working, , you're recruiting for your clients do you expect candidates to research and do your clients want to know that they've researched the the job?

Tom (08:07):

Oh, Most definitely. I mean, and building, my clients are a building material company, so if you're not passionate about selling, , decking and siding and windows so you have to know the products that you're going to sell. And, , lots of times when I started speaking to someone, they didn't remember the company they applied for. And sometimes I'm looking at resumes really good. I started having a conversation and they say, well, what position is this for? And where are they? And it's just like, what the hell? I mean, com on. So

Tom (08:33):

Did research is very important and , in every company I, I hire from GE I hired from competitors. So hiring for it's the same type of job with different, different types of companies. But if you can pinpoint the top product or the top, what, how long the company has been in business, , to company one company, I, I was , sandwiched in 1941. So that's something I want them to know. So yeah, the research is very important. It's a given it's common sense, but it's not, I know,

Annette (09:04):

Go ahead and Felipe. Did you want to add something?

Felipe  (09:07):

And I think nowadays they have easy way to research us. , when I was growing up, it was hard to research people. Oh, , companies, now you have so many ways to do it. And so when they tell me they've done the research on a website, okay, that's great. And that definitely stands out. But when they take it a step further, we actually, I saw your, your LinkedIn. I saw your company Facebook page or your Instagram page. I actually watched your videos on your YouTube page that tells me they had enough interest to actually sit there and watch a video and really read that really resonates well with me because that says, you definitely are hungry for this job. You want to work for this company and you like what you saw

Tom (09:48):

And the reason this is important, because we want to hire somebody long-term. So we, they had to make the right decision too. So it's not just, we want them to research a company. We want them to work for us. So they, they need to understand what the company is about. Otherwise, a year, year and a half down the road, they're looking for something else. So, yeah, another thing too, I sent out my clients I send my candidates, typically five, each revision upward to the company I'm working for. The people should also research the people that are gonna interview with, look at LinkedIn. Oh, Mrs. Smith. I see you've been at ABC company for 12 years. What keeps you here? Just have some type of research on the people that are gonna interview you. We never had that power before now because the LinkedIn, in most cases we have that power.

Felipe  (10:32):

You can even Google them Google. If they're in the news, that might be an indicator of, oh wow. They're in the news. Or if it's maybe bad news you either.

Annette (10:42):

No, absolutely. , research tells you so, so much, and I'm going to ask you a little bit more about research later, but one of the things that I've, I've heard, I actually heard a recruiter say this recently is you may not even look at the resumes. It's all about LinkedIn for us. So, what we do is we go to the profiles and that's, that's kind of where we go for that. So, w what do you, what do you say about that, Tom?

Tom (11:12):

We we recruit for four companies, two companies kind of using the standard method of posting jobs on board. I posted a job online, unaccompanied website, the other two companies the people we hire, they don't even post jobs. We recruit a hundred percent through LinkedIn. So depending on the company, sometimes LinkedIn to what they see first, sometime they see the resume. First, they have to being synced. They have to have the same story, the same value, the same vibe because you don't know how you can get found in today's world, social recruiting, getting found on social media is really a way to to get noticed. So, , I know the question is which, which is more important than LinkedIn a resume. It really depends on how you get found. So they're both in my world right now. They're both equally the point.

Annette (11:57):

No, I, I agree with you. And, and I just, I have just heard that recently, a recruiter said that, that they just, they don't even ask the, the candidates for resumes, which I found kind of hard to believe, but what's your, what's your take on that Felipe?

Felipe  (12:12):

Yeah, I agree with Tom. I definitely, I would not discount the resume. I want the resume because I want the resume to validate what's on LinkedIn and vice versa. So I want to see both, but to Tom's point, , I'm always gonna look at the resumes of people who applied for the positions that I have posted. However, if I'm searching and sourcing for candidates through LinkedIn, I'm not going to have the resume first. So LinkedIn has a wonderful feature where you can take if your is up to date. And this is another reason why you want to have your profile up to date is we can take your profile and put it down to a PDF or resume format and download it. I do that when I find someone that has reached, I reached out to, and they've gotten back to me, I'll go to the hiring manager and I'll download their profile into the resume format.

Felipe  (12:55):

I'll let the hiring manager know, don't judge the format of the resume. This is a LinkedIn resume. Content is theirs, but don't judge. If it doesn't look aesthetically pleasing to the eye, which is not bad, but if you're looking for a resume, looks flashy, it's not the flashiest resume, but it structures it in a resume format. I I'm going to show that resume. And then if it all works out, I still want them to send me the resume after that, when they apply officially, because I want to again, make sure that there is any discrepancies. If the dates don't match, or if the jobs are, are way off, I'm really going to question.

Annette (13:28):

Yep. I, I hear that. and that, that was my experience. And I, when I, the candidates that I work at candidates, the clients that I work with, say the same thing if they're interested, they're still going to ask you for the resume. The hiring manager always wants to see the resume. So, , I'm not thinking that's going anywhere anytime soon, but let's go back to LinkedIn. Let's talk a little bit about that. So people want to know because you were on LinkedIn. And one thing I know for sure is that if you have a skeleton profile, you're not coming up high in a recruiter search. So that's one reason that people really need to , have that robust profile. But, but Felipe, how did they get your attention? What, what do you see on that profile that makes you say, what, I'm going to contact this person.

Felipe  (14:18):

Yeah. When I'm sourcing people and I do a search and I searched for keyword, the job or whatever I'm looking for, and people will pop up, I will say, not having a photo does raise a red flag. I'll still look at them. If the rest of their profile is, is a hundred percent complete, that it might be a personal reason why they don't want that photo up there. And I'll respect that. And I'll still consider them obviously, but it does help if it's on there. I think when I look at a profile and things are missing, it's not complete. I'm not looking for your activity and your post activity and all that, unless you're applying for like a marketing type of thing. But if you're looking at apply to be an accounting or in, in, in in a role of HR, for example, I just want to see that it's fully complete, that you have attention to detail that you've filled out your information. You filled out your current experience. You felt like your skills. You put the About section in, you have a headline background photo as well. It just, it is your digital resume. It represents you. And at the end of the day, what I would recommend is look at your profile. If you were hiring somebody, would you hire yourself based on your own profile? That's what I would ask you to look at.

Annette (15:28):

No, that that's so true. And, I tell people also that, if you don't have that background photo, it just makes you look unsavvy. So, Tom, I know you can add to that.

Tom (15:39):

The background photos, she has some type of subliminal message to what you do. You have a sunrise picture, you know how I like sunrise pictures, Ellen, I mean, Ellen, and that's three different names already today.

Tom (15:53):

So you wouldn't have the right background, but you need to see branding. So right from the headline. Now, when I do, when I use LinkedIn recruiter and I narrow down my list, I try to get to like 120 people. And then I free that list. I start working that list. I just see some basic information, that list, I see your name, I see your headshot. So your headshot makes me want to click on your profile. I see the headline 220 characters that the headlines really targeted towards what I care about. And that's, the skilled and the level of the job title. And then once I click on your profile and I see the nice about page, it lets me know about you, your call, what you bring to the table. What's some of your strengths, what you leadership is like. I coach people on LinkedIn all the time and the About section, , did they get read if everything else works? Yes, it did get read. But tell me about you, not about your career, cause I'm going to see about your career when I scroll down. So and then a full career history, , you're not a job title, it's what you do in a job title that makes you special. So fill it out.

Annette (16:55):

No, please go ahead. I was going to say, I see you wanting to speak there

Felipe  (16:59):

And you can see About these. So right. The About section so important. I think people have to remember, it's a chance for you to tell your story, highlight your accomplishments. You don't write out your resume in the about section. You already have your experience section for that. That's that About section should be a story that lead feeds into your experience. And ideally you want to highlight those accomplishments or projects that you really are proud of. Use emojis if you want. Because the important thing about the About section is whether people read or not, a lot of people do read them and they are very valuable, but the other valuable part is the keywords in there in the About section. When I search words, it searches the about section. So it's going to capture that and pull up your profile for me if I'm looking for you.

Annette (17:44):

No, it's, it's, it's so true. And I see so many profiles where, it's, it's two or three lines or it's, or it's a third person bio, or it's all about the company. And one of the things that, that I sort of do with my clients is try to tell their story, like, why did they get into there? Why did they start in this field? And sometimes it's very interesting. , I worked with a client where the sibling got a computer for, I don't know, a holiday birthday or something, and it sat in the corner and my client would over and start to play with it and found the software developing and all this stuff. And now he is, a leader, , in that industry. That's, that's what he does. But, but the story I think is really interesting. So, so what do you think about that Felipe?

Felipe  (18:34):

I think, as long as the story is not like a whole essay, I think it's great. Great idea, because right there, the short story you just told me, so to be, wow, this person has kind of had a lifelong passionate about this, and that's something that if you do what you love, it's not always hard work, , if you really love it. So I love seeing the story. And again, highlight the story as to if it's relevant to the job you're applying for and there's accomplishments. I think there's an important things because it shows that you have a love interest and that you're good at it.

Annette (19:04):

No, I, I agree. And Tom, I know you'd have something to add to that for the about section.

Tom (19:10):

Well, I also teach it and cope course, and that's a LinkedIn course for our industry. And what I teach you to break, take the bow section, cause there's 2,600 characters, break it down to section, then put it nice capital heading. So the, the story and whatever someone wants to read, they could find. So if someone's a sales director, , hi, how I drive top line sales, my leadership philosophy, how do I , influence people to make decisions. I want to know how you do what you do. And that's a great place to do that. The about page. Talk about your core to know whatever job you get high for. I know what type of person I'm in getting.

Felipe  (19:47):

And if you Google trending words about that job title that you're looking for, and when you went to Google, those trending words, add those keywords in your about section, because those are the ones that are most commonly searched and that will help you stand out as well.

Annette (20:01):

Wow. Okay. I didn't know that. Very, very cool. So so what is, maybe one or two things that someone who's looking for a job can do to really improve their profile. If it's been up there, they've been meaning to work on it for six months and they just haven't gotten, gotten to it. So, Tom, what would you say they should do? Like today would be the one or two easy, quick kind of things they could do to make it better.

Tom (20:31):

The headline should be, should be written towards where you want to go next, make sure you have a photo. And about page, start with that. You get some storytelling and, about page and then go back in. And cause it's not just one thing you should do to so many things you do, but the headline targeted towards what you want to go get some keyword in it. And what happens when you have keywords, the headline, the job title lines and the skill section, no three areas get indexed first by LinkedIn algorithm. So they get looked at first and the rest of the content is index second. So those areas are really important, but the headline a photo and about page is something I would work on first.

Annette (21:09):

Do you want Felipe? I'm sure you have things to add to that.

Felipe  (21:12):

Yeah, no, I totally agree with Tom there. what I would say is for someone who hasn't been on there, if you haven't completed your profile, it gives you a status bar and it tells you how far along you are and your completion of your full profile. Once you reach a hundred percent completion, that status bar goes away. If you still have the status bar, I think wherever you are in that stage of that sentence picks the next stage today. And then tomorrow, the next stage until you get it fully complete. And going back to that background image, , a lot of people might not say, I don't have the talent to do digital kind of arts and all that. You don't have to be. We mentioned canvas earlier, camera not only will give you ideas. It gives you templates specific for LinkedIn so that it fits because if you just take one of your own personal photos, it's only going to capture a third of it and you don't want that to happen. So, so Canva allows you to really get images that will fit your dimensions of the background. So it stands out and Tom Tom's point put things into the resume and look at other people's background photos that are in a similar industry or similar jobs that you want. So you can get some ideas of what they put in there. And camera will allow you to do that for free.

Annette (22:19):

No, I, I agree with you, that a lot. I, one thing I know Tom and I have discussed before is, you don't necessarily want to take the template they have and just not change it. You want to go in there and put a different look with different photos and, even just use the dimensions. So I think you would agree with that, Tom.

Tom (22:39):

Oh, definitely. I know exactly. There's a lot of templates and I've seen people use the same template. So I'm starting to see, because , a lot of career coaches that thing, Canva, Canva, Canva, and I see a lot of the templates mean overused. So you could change the color. You could , use half of one template and half another template play around with it, make it your own, make it look and make sure it's relevant to what you want to get found for. So the banner image should connect to your to your career somehow. And I, I just was coaching someone yesterday, a LinkedIn coaching call and she just had mountains in the back. It was a beautiful picture, but as nothing to do with developing and training, sometimes just adding a tagline or, or a quote to that picture could make a huge difference.

Annette (23:21):

Right. Right. And as Felipe was saying, it's so easy to use. You can just take whatever you have and add text to it. And there's just so many different things that you can do with that.

Felipe  (23:31):

And to Tom's point, don't be worried about compare yourself to other people. Everyone started playing around with it at some point, and it just got better because they played around with it more. So play around with it, come up with a bad image and know what you did bad. And then

Tom (23:46):

I have one client he put a picture of him surfing on a west coast. He huge wave. And I asked him that you surfing. He goes, yeah, that's me. So we, we actually bought the pitcher and more and then we added a tagline to nothing comes from comfort zones. So staying in a comfort zone, something like that. And part of the here is its headline was stepping outside the comfort zone. So it kind of did a you there. So, , you could use odd pictures if you want, but just make sure it's connected somehow.

Felipe  (24:14):

And for those of you that have talents, I love photography. Art is one of my biggest passions. I started using my own images finally, because I realized that some of my images, instead of taking them from somebody else's or from a Canva, I have my own own pictures. I actually really liked them were really good. If you have someone in your family or you yourself are a good photographer tap into that resource.

Annette (24:35):

Yeah, no, absolutely. Tom, I will share the Thomas is a photographer as well. So we'll have to talk about that. So, , you have like a lot, you have a lot in common, so I'm, I'm so happy to have you both here. So one of the things that I've heard recently too, is that employers, and I forget if there's a percentage of it, but employers recruiters like to see candidate videos now, not necessarily, , a video resume instead of the regular resume, but two or three minutes of them talking about themselves. And so I I'd like to know, your take on that and, do you think that's something that they should have tried to have, I don't know, professionally done? Or is it something that is better if it's just a, more of a relaxed sort of video? So Tom, why don't you start us on that?

Tom (25:33):

Tik Toc just announced that they're connected with some other career platform where you can actually apply to jobs with the, with the video and not even your resume to start with. We'll see how that works out. We can't avoid video. It's going to be part of the process. It should never replace a resume and LinkedIn should be in addition to the challenges it has to be authentic and it has to be kind of good. So I, I'm waiting to see, like with LinkedIn recruiter, I get asked mom candidates two questions and they could choose to answer those questions in texts, or they could choose to answer the questions in the video. I would say only about 20% of people would answer the questions in video. The 80% will actually, you have to reply the answer in text. I think people are afraid of video. I'm afraid of video. I just started getting comfortable in the past, , five or six months. So what I'm afraid of is that some of the biases, and if you don't have the video, what do you get judged against when I have a video? So we see how this played out, but we're not gonna be able to avoid it. It's going to be part of the process. So I don't, I didn't answer your question, but that's about it

Annette (26:43):

So, well, no, you, you did. So, I was like that too. I, I hated video. I hate my voice. I hate to see my face on the screen, but you do half a dozen and it doesn't bother you anymore. It just doesn't bother you. So, so Felipe, what about you, do you like to see you think videos are a good thing and should people maybe put, do them and put them in their featured section or something on their LinkedIn profile?

Felipe  (27:06):

,I think it's to standout. I always, for those people that aren't comfortable are very introverted. , I always think about those people and thinking, okay, this is optional for you to get out of your comfort zone, but am I going to make that a recurring factor? Not, yeah, not, not in today's world. Are we getting closer? Yeah, I think it is getting closer because the end of the day, regardless of your personality, you're going to have to have a face-to-face interview regardless. So that video is an opportunity for you to practice. Now, LinkedIn has a great feature that a lot of you don't realize that if you hit on the bottom of your page of LinkedIn, the last thing on the right-hand corner is job search. You click on that job search. And when that opens up on the very top, the three little dots in the top right hand corner, you click on the three dots, you'll see, prepare for an interview option.

Felipe  (27:53):

You can actually, they have a bunch of questions there and you can record yourself answering those questions to see how you come across and great practice thing. You can even record it and post it if you want to share. But I personally don't know if I do that, but I definitely like to see how I look and how I respond to the question and how I sound. And it's a great opportunity for you to practice. Aren't caught with those before you send it. But I think if you do send a video, it does make you stand out.

Annette (28:20):

Okay. So, so since we're talking about sort of going into this interview type sort of discussion, what what do you look for Felipe when you're interviewing a candidate? , when you are, , either on the phone or I know today, do you do like video interviews, mostly with the candidates and what do you look for?

Felipe  (28:43):

So I do all the video interviews. I actually started doing video interviews back in 2019. So it was before COVID, but that teams and I with teams, anyone can join, you don't have to download it, made it very easy. And I wasn't getting as many people doing video interviews as I do today, obviously, but it was something that I, what I look for is I look for somebody who is really knows what they're thinking or talking about or well-spoken, or able to, to articulate what they want, why they want this job explain the process of the job that they've done in a current job very well. , I'll give you example if it's an accounts payable position and you've done the job, if you can't walk through that process and speak to it, well, I'm really going to question how much you really do.

Felipe  (29:31):

And I think it's important for people to really show their best effort, professionally looking, freshly dressed, making sure that they are ready and prepared have questions. Even if you have all your questions answered. I always say the one question that they'll never answer on their own usually is tell me why you liked working here so much, at least ask that if they answer all your questions, because it always leaves me with a little negative taste in my mouth when they have no questions, like, are you really that interested them? Cause I, I like to think I covered everything pretty well, but I can't imagine you have no questions. So that's a big

Annette (30:14):

And Tom, what, what do you what do you look for?

Tom (30:17):

Well, for me, it's difficult because there's too many times I have to spend so much time in discovery mode doing the discovery to be, we had to discover someone's strengths, the wins, the successes when the resume does that, I have a great interview. Like right now, we're actually hiring for a benefits manager for a company in Miami. And we have all the resumes are job postings. We have close to a hundred resumes. We narrowed down to five. We started interviewing them and every single resume is a list of job functions. So I had to spend so much time in discovery mode. So people are listening, make sure you read the bullet points of value based, not function-based. So that side , once you get to that understanding what the value is of the it's just everything. But I agree a hundred times with Felipe that I don't want to repeat what he said because I agree a hundred percent, but I spent too much time with too many resumes in discovery interview. And I don't want to do discovery interview. I want to tell me more about this. Tell me more about that though. The interview that I want to do, I'm dying to do those interviews, but if I have to spend 20 minutes discovering what you try to figure out, if you're actually a good fit or not is really hard.

Annette (31:29):

So do you find that also Felipe that, the those tasks based boring resumes, just start making it more difficult to interview?

Felipe  (31:39):

Yeah, it definitely, it's one of those things where it definitely makes it harder to understand what the person has to offer. And I think if they, if they are able to put it there, clearly it's so much helpful. And the other thing I'll say is informational interviews are phenomenal. I have a over 60% success rate of hiring people that I've done informational interviews with. And these are people that either approached me about an opportunity that we had up and they want to learn more about it, or I approached them. They weren't looking for a job. They were happy in their current job. And I just want to invite him, use, invite them out to coffee. Now in COVID over video to say, I just want to talk to you about it informationally. And it's amazing once people, if people are open to that, it is one of the best ways to learn about the company and the candidate. And you really have a great conversation and it's something that's such a valuable way to learn about each other that you end up hiring them. I, for me, at least 60% of the time,

Tom (32:38):

I've got a hundred percent of the time, the information interview going after the passive job seeker, those aren't looking, that's what I do on LinkedIn when I'm searching for someone. I don't know if they're looking for a job or not, and I don't really care. , if I find the right talent, I talk to them and hopefully convince them that I have a better opportunity. So I agree a hundred percent with that.

Annette (32:57):

So, so what is the thing? Because people often wonder, is it okay to contact recruiters? ,and is it, is it okay? Tom, are you, are you cool with that? Somebody just contacting you because they, , they see your recruiter and they just,

Tom (33:14):

If they contact me, I have a really great resume and to fit something to have. I love it. They contact me. I have a crappy resume. I get this. I'm sorry. I'm just the way it is. So if you're going to contact me and you want to get into a sales position, you better have a really great resume. Otherwise you're going to me off. I'm sorry.

Annette (33:31):

Don't be sorry. So, , go ahead. Fully myself. What about you? No.

Felipe  (33:38):

Oh, I'm sorry. When you say, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Annette (33:39):

You already, people reaching out to you, are you okay? No. Yeah, I'm

Felipe  (33:42):

Absolutely okay with that. I think, and especially because, I'm on LinkedIn so much that the, I it's an open door to reach out to me. , you can DM me very easily on there and you don't have to have my phone number. You have to have my email. So for me, I welcome that only because I'm so active on LinkedIn. If I wasn't, then I wouldn't be responding. But if people reach out to me, I think to Tom's point about big job, make sure that you have done your research, look at the job description, make sure that you have skills that you think can add value to that job. Because if you're looking to be the VP of marketing and you just graduated college, you have to be realistic here. Come on. I mean, that's the frustration part is when you be realistic at the job, cause sometimes I feel like, did you even read the job description? Did you even, or did you even look at the job title itself to really think about, is this a job that you are even potentially qualified for at any level? Because, , I find some hidden jumps. Sometimes they don't have the best experience in the world and that's great. But when you have nothing related at all, why are you applying for

Annette (34:50):

No, I hear you. And, and , when I was recruiting, I have to say that most of the resumes that I would get were not even the people were not remotely qualified. So how, how much of the job description fully of you can start and then I'm going to ask you how much should they have of the qualifications before they respond? sometimes people say 80% sometimes they say 60 and or I know it's tough, but if you can try to, to give me a little,

Felipe  (35:24):

It depends. I think the higher level up the higher, the percentage I would say, so an entry level position, I would say maybe 30%, a mid-level position, 50%, a manager, exact 80, 90%? So I think it really depends on the position because at the end of day, there are some people that I'm willing to train, I'm willing to help them grow and develop. And, and sometimes I don't want them tainted with their old job, the discipline, oh, job did it that way. And they're so focused on how they used to do it, that they're not teachable. So, so sometimes you want that person that doesn't have all the experience, but has some,

Annette (36:02):

Okay, so Tom you've, you've got it a little bit. I mean, you have to talk to them and then you have to sell them to your clients. So what, what's your whole take on that percentages or how much people should have before they respond?

Tom (36:18):

It's hard to put into percentages. Like I hire a lot of sales reps from national to territory managers to inside sales people in the building materials industry. I've been so successful hiring people from the pharmaceutical industry, into the building materials. Now sales at a talent, whether you can sell, you can sell, you can sell it as simple as that. So I always look at that, that ability to sell. So there's no really set percentage. It it's the whole package together. If I find someone that has only a couple of years of selling experience, but it's in electronics. Hopefully they could take that sales technique and turn it into building materials. But then the right, they have the right attitude. So it was a combination. And I agree the higher, the level, the more the more of a, of a percentage you want them to be qualified

Felipe  (37:07):

If I have, I think it's important that, realistically people look at job descriptions and, , we started doing, I started doing video job postings before. COVID where I would videotape the department, the team, and each employee in that department would say why they think you should come work for us. And it goes away to get a chance to see who you might work with, the space you'd worked with before you even applied, because let's be realistic. How many people really read the full job description? We'd like to think they read it or they read all of it. But I know a lot of people would read maybe the first few lines, oh yeah, I can do this. , and it's a pie. And so I think we had to get creative with that sometimes. But if someone's really interested in the job, they're going to read the job description and they're going to make sure that they look at it. And that's something that tells me you're serious about it. You understand the job and you read enough about it to be educated enough, to be able to know that you are calling.

Tom (38:02):

Yeah, it's funny you saythat we were recruiting for an outside sales manager and long island and we posted a job and then posted seven resumes. One of the things that are requirements, and you have to have three plus years of Salesforce experience because it's the core selling and tracking tool. Out of those 257 resumes, only 22 have Salesforce on a resume. So either they don't have Salesforce and this really, they said you must add even further requirements. So yeah, a lot of times they don't read a whole job.

Felipe  (38:36):

And that's why it's important to be made is if you read a job description and say, oh, I do have those skills and they're not on your resume, go back and add it on your resume because those are the things they're looking for.

Tom (38:48):

Exactly.

Annette (38:48):

No, I, I agree with you. I I have one client I've worked with him a few times. He's actually a really dynamic salesperson. And when I was working on his resume at one point I was looking at the job description and it was looking for a budget experience, but he didn't put that in the materials he gave me. I, I, , I use worksheet. And so I just emailed them and said, oh, by the way, this is here and you do this. Oh yeah, yeah, I do that. And so easy to just add it to the resume. So so I, I hear what you're saying. So I have some more questions for you, but I do want to ask you the questions that were on LinkedIn, because this is something that, , somebody is really wanting to know. So how much that the person says, how much importance do recruiters give through recommendations on your LinkedIn profile? Tom, do you want to start that? And then I'll yeah.

Tom (39:46):

Yeah, well, good. I do value them and I will read them after I decided I liked the possible candidate, but it does a couple of things you want to make sure your quid pro quo recommendations are not parents. So what I mean by that you have 15 recommendations that someone wrote for you and then the same 15 people a day before, after you wrote for them, that totally just washes out. It becomes like a favor. So the one that you wrote for people, you don't have to make the public, you can make that private, so it won't disappear from their profile, but it won't show in your profile. So be careful with that. And again, the recommendations I vendors. Okay. , your support team that's okay. But I I'm your boss and higher level people above you, the companies you work quite valued or recommendations. So yes, they matter. It could be a reading, a couple of great recommendations could match. You make me want to pick up the phone and call you right away.

Annette (40:40):

Okay. And Felipe, what about you?

Felipe  (40:44):

I would, no, I would agree, know it's, it's that added bonus of, of when you get to the recommendations or the recommendations, if there are good ones, most, once you pick up the phone and call them, instead of just sending them email. And I agree with Tom, , the higher up people that do recommend you, it definitely stands out. It looks better and, and you definitely don't want it to look like you're just doing tick for tack because then it does lose meaning , it is good to have a nice mix. It's okay. If some of them are, tick for tack, but you don't want to make all of it like that because then it does lose its value. And, and reach out. Don't be afraid to reach out to previous managers you've had, because especially if you had a good relationship with them, it's amazing.

Felipe  (41:25):

Some of the people that you ever made recommendations they wrote down all this professional stuff, but then they added part about, oh, and it's been a valued friendship over the years, , even after we stopped working together, which I was like, that's really nice. Then I'm like, oh wait, is it going to look like that? My friend wrote this for me, but now it goes to me, I look at it as it goes into the value of the relationships, building relationships continue. And I'm always a big proponent about building relationships. So hopefully it just shows that even though I may leave a company, I still maintain relationships with those people after I left. So it is, you want to make sure that what they read now, you can approve them before you post them. So if they put in there something that you don't want in the recommendation, you can send it back to them and say, can you, can you take this one part out? Because I actually came across that might make me look bad or might not read well,

Annette (42:14):

No, that, that that's great. So it's a bummer that you can't alter, reorder the recommendations anymore. I, I really miss that. They, they took that ability away on LinkedIn, unfortunately. So the, the next question from this person is if you reject an offer, I guess, a job offer, maybe because you had multiple offers and it wasn't the best fit for you at that time, does that create any kind of a negative impact? So Felipe, do you want to take that first?

Felipe  (42:49):

So if I understood the question, so if they got multiple offers and they did not accept my offers, as long as, as long as you don't go to me and communicate to me, I appreciate the offer. I've actually accepted an offer with somebody else. Thank you very much. That's all I need. If you give me that I'm respectful and I will re interview you again in the future in a heartbeat, but I'm interviewing you and I spent time talking to you, and then you just ghost me, our applicant tracking system. You better believe I'm leaving a note in there that you go me so that when you reapply, it's going to pop up and let me know that you ghosted me last time. And I'm going to remember that I'm a good memory, but the computer helps me too. And that to me is the worst thing you are bringing a bridge.

Felipe  (43:29):

People think, oh, I don't care. You should care. You're bringing a bridge with people and not just the company, but the recruiter that recruited might go into Google. My, go to Amazon. And guess what? When you apply there, they remember your name because I remember a lot of people that applied for 23 years at Hyatt I don't know why I remember them, but I remember when they pop up on the applicant tracking system, like, wait, this person needs to apply all the time at this hook company. I remember this. So don't burn that bridge, communicate to them and it's okay that you didn't accept their offer. Just let them down.

Annette (43:58):

That's great. And before I turn it over to Tom, I would say that that was their next question. If you applied to the same company, would you be getting less preference? So you're saying if they leave, if they just are polite about it, then talking to hurt them, replying to your company in the future. Okay. So, Tom, what about you? I

Tom (44:17):

Agree in general, but if I'm working back and forth and we're going through salary negotiations, we had five rounds out in negotiations and you tell me, you can take the job if I gave you this, I work hard to get you that, and then you turn around and no, I'm not going to take the job. Now. I went, no, yes, that's going to leave a bad taste in my mouth. And most likely I won't go through it around again, a five rounds of negotiation with you. So typically in gemstones searching and dealing with offers, I totally get that word base so first, but if it depends, if you had a lot of I'm going back and forth. So

Felipe  (44:51):

I actually, I agree with that last part there, but about if we're in the final stages in your final candidate and we're negotiating with you back and forth, and we went back and forth a few times and after all of that, and we kind of match what you said you were looking for, and then you declined it. You waste a lot of time that we could've been spending, find somebody else for that position. And in that case, I do agree with Tom that, that I might not be as inclined to re-interview them in the future. I'm also more about if, , the interview made the offer and there wasn't a whole lot negotiating and they were pleasantly. And like you, like, I got three offers I got to choose from. And unfortunately, to go with this one, I really did enjoy your company. And they were respectful. That's what I'm talking about. But if they were like making us go back and forth a lot of times, because it made it seem like they wanted the job really badly, that that's, that's a waste of our time.

Annette (45:40):

Yeah. And, and you worked so hard to get the hiring managers to say, okay, we'll give them, whatever it is that they're looking for. And then they, they say no. So so one of the things that I just want to, I have actually actually let's just go onto the salary negotiation. I recently Robert half did a survey of managers and this was in October of 2020. So not that long ago. And the managers, 36% of them said that they were more willing at that point to negotiate salary with new hires than they were the year before. And 50% said they were just as likely to negotiate now. I know from, from personal experience and people, I talked to that most people do not, or a lot of people just don't try to negotiate. So Tom, if you could kick us off, what, what is that about? The negotiation should, should candidates trying to negotiate and what?

Tom (46:49):

Honestly I expect every candidate to negotiate with me. I'm part of the negotiations with, to, to the clients I work for. I negotiate the salary. I do the actual hiring once they decided who they're going to hire. So, and hiring salespeople. So I would expect a salesperson to come back with something, , you get a little bit more out of the relationship. And the operation managers typically I expect them to negotiate. Now I do find a lot more men will negotiate than females is just maybe it's cultural. I don't know, but I am seeing females negotiate more than they have in the past year, but it's still a big difference. I go off a female of job as certain $90,000 and $50,000 commissions, and she'll take it and I'll, I'll do the same thing with 10 men and they'll all negotiate. So that's what I see out there.

Annette (47:42):

It's definitely a culture thing. It's definitely a culture thing. So, so Felipe, what's your take on that?

Felipe  (47:48):

So I think that negotiation is important to a point. So my, and this is my philosophy, so I, I'm not fan of low-balling people. Oh, they're making less, I get a low ball me, no, I like to pay them what they're worth. And I usually educate people and make the offer that I took this many years of experience that you have, and some transferable skills that you have. And I took that into consideration when I came up with a salary so that I wouldn't put you at the minimum of the pay range. I wanted to put you higher up in the pay range because you brought some value to it. So to me, with those people, I, I'm not looking for them to negotiate if they do. I don't have an issue with it, not looking into it, but to Tom's point, any sales positions that I'm recruiting for you better negotiate because you that's your job, you are negotiating things left and right. You're selling yourself you're selling people. I expect you to at least try. And, and, and, , of course I can just sell yourself during the interview, but if you're in a job where you'll be negotiating contracts and rates, and it's like that, I need you to tell me that you have that skillset. So I want you to negotiate. I would expect it I'd almost be a negative mark if you didn't,

Tom (48:56):

When you do a salary offer, typically the Salary Bands bands and Digby (Salaries) at as much as a 30% swing from the low end of band to the high end, the company that I work for typically want me to say mid range for the most part, but obviously there's room to do more. So typically when you make that initial salary offer, where in the salary bands at that offer activity?

Felipe  (49:16):

Well, and I look at it at the core tiles of the pay range, obviously, and, simplify basically right now, if they're in the five to seven years of experience in our company, they should already be at that midpoint.at that five-year mark, they should be at that midpoint in salary, coming from the outside. It's hard to validate their experience. Sometimes we didn't work with them. We don't know how good they were. So I do want to give, so I do want them, if they have that five, some years experience, I want to get them close to them midpoint. But if they have 10, 12, 15 years experience, I'm going to put them over that midpoint.

Tom (49:50):

Okay.

Annette (49:52):

No, that that's great. And, and one thing since you're talking about internally, it, people often think if they're working at a company that, , people know what they do, the boss knows what they do. Maybe they think all the bosses boss and they're down there working nose to the grindstone and, , everybody knows that how great I am. And so, so why don't you give us a little fix on that Felipe, do people know what, what they're doing? Ready to just promote them?

Felipe  (50:23):

Yeah, I wish people knew everything they were almost doing. I wish that was the case. , the phrase walk in my shoes is popular for a reason because people don't know everything. , we're very fortunate. We have an amazing CEO from 12 relation that every time we've had an executive move on and get promoted, whatever happened, he actually took on their role for awhile because he wanted to experience their life for a little bit before we filled it. And he was the head of HR before I joined. And, , they, they were very grateful that, that he didn't do any more afterwards. They said, but he didn't find a job, but he saw the value of what I do now. He appreciates what I do. So when people have that ability is phenomenal, but unfortunately, most don't, unless they make a concerted effort to go down and spend a day with somebody or a week to really learn about what they're doing in day in and day out most don't.

Annette (51:17):

So, so how did, how did people, if I'm in a job and you're my boss, how do I make sure that, all the great things that I'm doing and, do I ask you for stretch assignments and tell you, I really want to, to, to move on, move up or how would that work for the managers in your, in your company?

Felipe  (51:41):

Well, two things, two there's two approaches to that. One is like you said, speak up and volunteer to be a part of pride. We have lots of projects going on at many times, a lot of initiatives and we are welcoming of new ideas. We're not one of those. I always tell people if you want to come into a company and, and be told to do ABC every day and then go home, don't apply with us. We want you to come in. We want you to challenge ideas. We want you to refresh ideas. We want your fresh approach. So we welcome new ideas. I'm not going to guarantee that we're going to do all your ideas, but we've tried to try some crazy stuff here. And some of it has worked wonderfully well, and that's because people were open to sharing their ideas. We put a ping pong table in our branch.

Felipe  (52:23):

So when you go into a branch to do your banking, you can get a coffee, you can play ping pong, and you can sit down with Starbucks and meet with people. It's a very unique branch. There's no teller line in our branch, but it's one of the things that stands out. So we welcome those fresh ideas. We want those fresh, fresh ideas. And the other thing I think is making sure that you are very, just, I guess, again, going back to, before being hungry for it and just going after what you want. Yeah. The second part of that question as well or no.

Annette (52:53):

No, actually I want to put it to a different, a different angle to Tom. And so, obviously you are working for clients and how does that work if, if they are are you part of the interviewing process if they are also opening a position to internal candidates, how does that work?

Tom (53:15):

It depends. I have a recruiting team that takes care of a lot of recruiting. I get involved with some of the high level recruitment, but be before career, think I was I was a manager. I was in charge of 10 locations, , w you to piggyback with Felipe. He said, it really comes down and see the leadership structure. It's a company has real leaders and every management level leads, they should be pulling up their people. So they should know every manager, your direct manager knows exactly where you good at, where you need help, how to, how to get you up and move you up. Unfortunately, corporate America is starving for great leadership. So that's, I think where if you have a good lead as a boss, and one thing that I've learned over the years, I consider myself a good leader and people come up with me 20 years ago and say, , thank you for calling me out when I did this wrong. I had a lot of, when I worked for BJ's wholesale club, I had a lot of young people working there at the mall, a lot of them on the right track. So come down to the leadership and the infrastructure of the company.

Felipe  (54:12):

Yeah. I agree with that a hundred percent, because you have to, if you have a good leader, they're going to push you to do more. They're going to push you out of your comfort zone. They're gonna see that you have qualities that maybe you don't see in yourself and they will encourage you. And I think that's so important because you're right, a strong leader is going to get their hands dirty with you and be able to help you do your job. I always, I always want to know everyone on my team's job and I want to be able to do it not as necessarily as well as they do, but if they're gone my payroll person, I always joke if, if she is not here and I've got new payroll, everyone will get paid. I promise you, but there might be some mistakes here and there.

Felipe  (54:53):

Okay. Yeah. I might have to fix a few things, but I promise to everyone for your paycheck, we all need to be involved enough to understand what our teams are doing and be able to do it to a certain extent and pick up the ball. If they need help, I can go into the train room and take over training. If I need to, for my trainer, I can do payroll. If I needed to, again, what I do as well as them. No, they do it every day. And I'm glad that they do it better than I do, because that's why I had them on my team, surround yourself with great people, having a great,

Annette (55:20):

Great. So we are getting towards the end here and I thank you so much. Both of you Tom, why don't you start? Is there anything that I haven't asked you, anything that you would like to share Tom before, as we're winding up here?

Tom (55:44):

What's the topic? my mind is swimming right now.

Annette (55:49):

OK, Do you want Felipe to take, to go with this

Annette (55:52):

For a second? What would you like to share Felipe that, I haven't brought up whatever you would like to share is fine.

Felipe  (56:00):

I would recommend to people don't be worried about reaching out no way worried about doing stuff on LinkedIn or reach out to recruiters. And don't be afraid to ask for help. There are so many people, whether it's on LinkedIn or on clubhouse or whatever platform, there are people out there that are generous with their time and are willing to do reviews or even just LinkedIn reviews, resume reviews. Give you tips on an interview before you go. You might have someone in your family or your friend set that has that skill set. Don't be afraid to ask that there's no shame in that. I think there's more shaman hiding that you're afraid of something and you ended up not coming across, looking good, ask those questions, be willing to learn and grow. And I think if you do that and have a positive attitude, those are the steps that you need that will help you get started on the right track to gain that job.

Annette (56:54):

Great. Thank you.

Tom (56:55):

And add to that, just putting yourself out there and LinkedIn to the great way to get out there, and network and networking. Linkedin is less intimidated because you're doing it from a keyboard. You're not doing in a big room with a bunch of other people, so don't be traded network and just make sure that you're putting your stuff out there and, and just knock on doors, send those emails, send those messages on LinkedIn because you'd be surprised I do a lot of free LinkedIn reviews with people all the time and a lot of people on that. One does that. So take advantage of it.

Felipe  (57:27):

And if you're going to do it on LinkedIn, I that's the, one of the most powerful ways of doing it Tom's right. DM that we DM them reference something that is relevant to that person, that you're messaging, whether it's a post, they did article, they wrote or something about their company, don't just hit a blind connect, sending personalized invitation to connect and tell them why you want connect with them. And if they do connect, then again resonated with them with something they posted or ask them a question about an opportunity that you saw they have on the website. And that's what you can get some great conversation. And that way I will tell you I've hired people that I've talked to on LinkedIn. And when I see their outpatient popped up three months later, I'm like, wait, I remember this person and put them up on LinkedIn. And I see her conversations. I'm like, oh, that's right. And I'm telling you it helps.

Tom (58:12):

Well, and I agree with that. It's one thing I have sales navigator and then my recruiters have LinkedIn recruiter. But if I have a conversation with someone, I keep noticing every single conversation. There was something back to me. You don't way that I had notes there. So you'd be surprised how have recruits.

Felipe (58:27):

Yup.

Annette (58:28):

Okay. Well, thank you so much. Thank you to everyone who's out there watching now, or is watching it on the replay and thanks again and have a great rest of your day. Take care.