Techniques To Help You Beat The ATS System (And Get Your Resume Seen)

Lynne Williams, ATS Resume and LinkedIn Expert, Around the Clock Executive Helper, and Annette Richmond, Personal Brand Strategist, career intelligence Resume Writing, discussed how to beat the applicant tracking software system or ATS.      

One of the biggest concerns for job seekers is whether or not their resume is ATS compatible. Widely known for her ATS expertise, Lynne coauthored a chapter focused on the ATS with Dick Bolles, author of the famed What Color is Your Parachute?

Topics included:

✅ What the ATS or applicant tracking software system is and is not

✅ Why you need to avoid Infographic resumes

✅ Formatting your resume for the ATS (mistakes not to make)

✅ Why the ATS is important even if you're networking

✅ Using the CAR (Challenge, Action, Result) formula to create achievement statements

✅ The best way to beat the ATS Hint: It's not what you think

Smarter Career Moves LinkedIn Live Show (Previously Recorded) 

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Visit our website https://careerintelligenceresumewriting.com/

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(Previously recorded, Live Show)

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Transcript

[00:00:10.310] - Annette

Hi, I'm Annette Richmond. Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Smarter Career Moves podcast.

[00:00:31.810] - Annette

So good morning. Good morning, everyone who's out there. Thank you for joining us. It's eleven am on Thursday, so it's time for the Smarter Career Moves LinkedIn Live. I'm so happy to have my friend and colleague Lynne Williams here with me. Sorry to be late. We're having a few little technical difficulties here, so please forgive us for that.

[00:00:53.780] 

Please.

[00:00:54.270] - Annette

If you have any questions or want to say Hi, please do put your comments in the chat and let us know where you are joining from. So, Lynne, we met about a year ago, I think, on Clubhouse, and we've collaborated a couple of times on clubhouse. And I don't know how you find the time to do what you do because your clients, you have the job seeker group. And then I just learned that you were one of the 16 coaches from around the country selected to have a chapter in a book with Dick Bowles. And I started 20 years ago. And What Colors Your Parachute? I think is still one of the top books. So why don't you tell us for anyone who doesn't know you a little bit about who you are and what you do.

[00:01:47.650] - Lynne

All right. So I basically wear three hats. Hat number one is I write resumes and LinkedIn profiles. Hat number two is I'm the executive director of the Great Careers Group. And what we do is provide up to 50 events a month for career education and networking and all that is online, on Zoom or on Clubhouse at the moment. The third hat that I wear is I'm working on my doctoral dissertation, and I'm writing about LinkedIn for job seekers who are digital immigrants. And what that means is Gen X and boomers.

[00:02:29.990] - Annette

It's so amazing to me. So tell me a little bit about this whole book thing that you did. What was the book and what was the chapter that you did? Sure.

[00:02:46.430] - Lynne

In 2014, I was asked to write an article for the ATD, which is formerly the ASTD. So that was a society of training and development, and now is association of Talent Development, which is a worldwide organization. And I wrote an article about the applicant tracking system after somebody had seen me present the topic. So I wrote the article. And two years later in 2016, they came to me and asked me if I would write a chapter in a book. So the book is called Find Your Fit, A Practical Guide to Landing the Job You Love. There were 16 career coaches from around the country that contributed chapters to the book. And Dick Bowles, the author of What Color is Your Parachute, wrote the foreword in the book. So my chapter was on applying for jobs. And we started with the applicant tracking system and Keywords, and then they expanded the chapter to a whole bunch of different arenas as to how to apply to jobs. So that's what that chapter is about. And you'll find that book on my LinkedIn profile?

[00:03:57.530] - Annette

Well, that's so exciting. As I said, I'm still quite in awe of my first job when I got my Masters in Psych was working as a vocational counselor at a training and placement facility. And What Color Is Your Parachute? Was something that we used all the time, and they used to have it even on a CD, but I don't think they have that available, the CD version anymore. But it's exciting to know somebody prestigious has that book out. So I'll have to check that out myself. So some of the things that you and I think have in common are different ways that people find a job. And I know that there are some people, obviously, they're concerned about beating the applicant tracking system, and they spend so much time online applying for jobs. Now, my opinion is that when you're doing that, when you're applying to like indeed or something, your recruiters have told me they get 250 plus applicants for every single job, and that's just the average. And so I think in some ways it's like taking spaghetti and throwing it up on the wall and hoping that some of it sticks. So, of course, the applicant tracking system is important, but what do you think is the best way to beat that?

[00:05:28.770] - Lynne

The best way is to avoid it and get out there and network your way to your next job. That's really the best way. But people still have to be familiar with applicant tracking systems in general so that they know how to properly format their resume because aside from networking, people can get referrals in for employee referral programs. There's all kinds of job boards, LinkedIn jobs. They can proactively apply to companies if they've got a target company list. But when they get to the company websites, if it's a big company, they have to be able to deal with the applicant tracking system. So you know what, Annette? I told a little bit about me, but I might have some followers here that don't know about you. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do?

[00:06:26.810] - Annette

Oh, okay. Well, thank you. So I spend my time I work primarily with senior level executives, and I help them really work on their personal or executive brand. And that starts with a resume that is really going to tell your career story, a LinkedIn profile again, that's going to be compelling and engaging and making sure that you're using all of those features. Right. So we can talk a little bit about those maybe later on, have that headshot, create that cover story. That's kind of my spiel. And thank you so much for asking. That's really nice of you. I talk to recruiters all the time, as I'm sure you do as well. And I had one recruiter recently who works for a large financial services company tell me that it's better to apply directly through the company if you can than to go through Indeed. And he mentioned to me Felipe Cofinio, who I interviewed a couple of times on my LinkedIn Live, he said that even if you apply to Indeed and your resume makes it through and he's interested in you, he's still going to ask you to apply through his company because of the ATS system.senior-levelan 

[00:07:52.780] - Annette

So maybe you could talk a little bit about that because people think that the ATS only jobs, but they don't realize that it's this whole back end for the company.

[00:08:04.250] - Lynne

Well, the ATS is a database and there's over 200 ATS that exist. And so you never know which one you're going to get. But it's good to be familiar with the fact that you've got to think like a database. So how does the information get from your resume into the fields of a database? First name goes in the first name field, last name goes in the last name field, et cetera. So the ATS systems also help with EEOC requirements and basically the resumes are scanned. They go into the parser, the red by Bots, and then a mathematical score is formulated by the ATS system so that it gives a percentage of how well it matches to the job description that you are applying to. And the word that you need to know about is called contextualization. So contextualization not only hones in on the keywords, but it hones in on the words before it and after it. So in other words, it reads entire phrases. So you want to have that matchy matchy between your resume and the job description with the keywords and key phrases. The applicant tracking system also has certain questions like if you are fresh out of College, for example, and it asks for one to two years experience or three to five years experience, if you answer truthfully and you say no, then that's a throwout question, right?

[00:09:52.120] - Lynne

So you might not make it through based upon your answers to the question. But let's say you do answer all the questions that match properly. So what happens is when you put your resume up, the resume must be red. So I love Canva I use it every day for graphics, but they have resume formats. They're so highly formatted and that's not something that is going to be friendly to an applicant tracking system. It may be beautiful and friendly to human beings, but that's not the kind of applicant tracking system resume that you want.

[00:10:36.190] - Annette

Yeah, I love that you said that because sometimes potential clients come to me and they want those infographic resumes. They look really pretty. But as you say, they are not applicant tracking system friendly or compatible. And I recommended that people, they can use it if they want to have like an executive bio type thing that they're going to just handle people, but not applying to jobs because it just doesn't work. And I'd like to talk a little bit about the idea of networking in. And as you know, particularly as people become more senior, often a big part of their job search is networking and they may find a job by networking. And they'll tell me, well, I have to worry about the ATS because I'm networking. But what they don't realize is their resume is still going to end up in the database. Right. So can you talk a little bit about how even if I'm networking with my friend, I'm a VP of marketing and I have a friend at Diazio and she walks my resume in there and I feel like, oh, okay, but I don't get this job. How is that going to hurt me in the future if I don't have an ATS compatible resume?

[00:11:59.670] - Lynne

Well, because I said there's over 200 ATS systems. There are different career coaches that have different philosophies. And everybody may have a system that works. So you may do something slightly differently than I do. But your system works. Okay. So my system works. I know from my clients and I believe in having two resumes. So one is having a pretty resume for humans that's got a little pop of color in it. And our eyes are drawn attention to that little pop of color for like shaded bands of what the sections of the resume are. But then I take the resume and I deconstruct it, so to speak. And what I do is I just take out all the formatting, all the shading, all the lines, etc. And it basically boils down to aerial twelve point font and then that little backwards P symbol on a word that's called I know there's a specific name for it, but I just go into that and I make sure everything is clean on the back end so that there are no section breaks or anything like that. So it's pure so that the resume can just get swooped up into the applicant tracking system and get read.

[00:13:31.570] - Lynne

But there are certain things that you have to do with regards to formatting, but you definitely want to plan your resume with your future forward job or something that matches the job description. You can't change your past history. Your past is your past, but a lot of people want to reinvent or pivot. And then it's a positioning statement and the keywords that go along with what you want to be when you grow up in your future. But you can't have images or graphics or logos or pictures or anything like that in the resume that's just too highly formatted. Those are a couple of tips to start out with.

[00:14:13.890] - Annette

Yeah, it is so interesting. And as you're right, everybody does things a little bit, a little bit differently when it comes to resumes. I have mentioned I do use graphs and things like that, but I always make sure to turn them into images because you cannot put a text box or something like that because the ATS doesn't read it. And if you are going to do that and you also mentioned like headers and footers and things like that, I'm sure you see these as well. I see resumes. I'm talking to potential clients and they have their contact information in the header and they wonder why nobody calls them.

[00:14:54.440] - Lynne

Yeah, because the ATS system is reading the header and that's it. You've got that section break in there and boom, that's it. When I was a job seeker back in 2013, that's what happened to me. I did not get any calls for seven and a half months. And that's when I decided that I need to do a lot of research on this ATS system. And I can't even begin to tell you the stack of articles that I read, I highlighted, I annotated, I synthesized all this information. And then I came up with my theory and then I started practicing with clients and they were successful. I'll give you an example. My daughter a few years ago went to apply to Del Boomi and they have work day. So she took my deconstructed resume, which is just aerial twelve point font. And the only formatting in it is the solid black bullet points. And she said, mom, it worked in a nanosecond, but nothing is 100% perfect. So what she had to do was fix three things. She said, mom, the volunteer experience went in the work experience, so she had to fix that. The next thing was she said, mom, it didn't put a comma after the city before the state.

[00:16:22.670] - Lynne

And I'm like, well, that's okay because the city is one field and the state is another field. So on the resume, you've got the comma between the city and the state. But when it puts it and extracts it into the fields, it'll remove that. And then the third thing she said she had a fix was some people have a sentence or two about the company and what kind of company it is or maybe their role before they get into the bullet points of accomplishments. And she didn't have that sentence or two. Hers went straight to the bullet points. So the workday system for Del Boomi removed the bullet point from her first bullet. So she just had to put it out. But it just read it in a nanosecond. I know that when I was a job seeker in 2013, it was not reading my resume and I spent an hour and a half, 2 hours or whatever. It was ridiculous amounts of time copying and pasting into the little content blocks. And that's because my website was not being read. It's a nightmare, right?

[00:17:31.040] - Annette

Yeah, it certainly is. And one of the things that I occasionally hear people is the applicant tracking system. They are getting smarter. They're getting smarter all the time and they're able to read more and more. But occasionally I hear somebody say, well, you know what? You can put the keywords in white so that they won't be on the paper. But the applicant tracking. And I'm thinking that that's kind of a crazy idea. What do you say about that?

[00:18:05.210] - Lynne

I think it's a crazy idea. Also, it really says a lot about your personality and your integrity. I've heard people taking the job description and copying and pasting it at the end of the resume and putting it in white. Well, guess what color it comes out on the other end? Black. And somebody could see all of that. So either the recruiter or the hiring manager, whoever is managing the ATS system, they're going to say, oh, this person is very clever, or they're going to say, oh, this person is trying to cheat the system. So they get 100% matchy matchy with the job description with all the keywords and key phrases. And I just think that's a very bad practice. I think you need to go in on your own merit with your expertise and skills and qualities and sell yourself and not try to cheat the system. You know, have integrity.

[00:19:03.070] - Annette

Yeah. So here's my friend and colleague Sara, who says no, she agrees with us. Don't ever do that. And the thing is and I do want to invite people who are watching as we have several people out there. Please do put your questions in the comments. We can see them here and we will. You know, I'm sure Lynne would be happy to answer them. But the point is, too, even if you game the system and you manage to get in for the interview, you're not getting the job anyway.

[00:19:32.260] - Lynne

That's right. Interview. The resume is basically to get you an interview. That's your marketing piece, so you have to position yourself correctly. But when I do a pretty resume for humans, I typically just put years on. But the applicant tracking system seems to want to know months and years of start and end dates. So I will typically go in and say 6/19- 4/21. So that's why I have a pretty resume for humans because it just looks nicer streamlined with the full dates. But when you are actually applying for a job, you need to match up the actual start and end dates. And the applicant tracking systems typically want that.

[00:20:30.350] - Annette

So I have another question for you. It's a mistake that I see not so much on LinkedIn, but I see on resumes all the time. And if you can talk a little bit about how this works against job seekers and say they've been at Diazzio for ten years and they've had three positions. And my most recent position is director of marketing. But I started out as a marketing associate or something like that. And they will clump all three jobs under the most recent position, which is generally the highest position. And I think the thinking is that somehow it will look better to have that high position. But in reality it works against you, right?

[00:21:16.730] - Lynne

Well, that's one of those it depends answers.

[00:21:22.850] - Annette

No, that's okay.

[00:21:23.710] - Lynne

Of course, when you're on LinkedIn, I think it's good to show that you climb the corporate ladder and get promoted. So if you're using the same logo of the company, it kind of, I don't know, glams them together with a little Gray line. So when you're applying through an applicant tracking system, you do have to break those positions down into three separate positions. Yes, with the dates, start dates and end dates. But on a pretty resume for humans, you can have the overall job with the beginning start date and the end start date. And you don't have to list the company name three times. You can list position and accomplishments, position, accomplishments, position and accomplishments. And in parentheses next to the job title, that's where you can put the years that you were at that. So it's a different way of presenting it depending on what the purpose is. So that's why it depends. It goes one way for humans, it goes another way for the bots.

[00:22:39.440] - Annette

Well, you know, I love that you said that, Lynne, because I agree with you a lot of things with the resumes, of course, no spelling errors. You have to have professional experience. You want to put education on the bottom unless you're a new grad or something. But so many of the other things are it depends. And writing a resume, working with a client, if you're working with a professional like Lynne or myself, the strategy is also a big part of it. And what you leave out is, I think, often just as important as what you put in.

[00:23:15.250] - Lynne

So it's funny that you say that everything needs to be individualized. And every client, they have their own needs and you have to work with them. So there's no one size fits all, there's no Cinderella shoe. Go with the flow. Each Cinderella show for each client. I come from a K twelve teaching background and I used to write IEPs individual education plans for special needs. And I used to write GIPS gifted individual education plans for gifted and talented students. And then of course, I had everything in between in the middle of the Bell curve. So I look at writing resumes and LinkedIn profiles as the GIPS for adults. But I'm not a resume mail. I do one person at a time like you do, because you've got to position them the way that they want to go. Again, everybody has different needs. Some people are staying in the same industry and others are moving.

[00:24:36.690] - Annette

It's so true. So much about these things do depend. And I'm glad that you have mentioned just that because so many people and you mentioned it earlier about being forward looking. So many people who are not in the industry think of a resume as a job history. It's like my application, but it's on a piece of paper where I'm just putting the dates and they don't realize that it's a marketing tool.

[00:25:09.150] - Lynne

Yes, absolutely. So I believe in having a base resume and taking the base resume and going file save as ABC company, file save as X-Y-Z company. And that way you can customize that resume to match the key words and key phrases that are in the job description as long as it is Truthful and meets your qualifications and skills.

[00:25:39.090] - Annette

Yes, absolutely. One thing that is really frowned on and I'm sure you read these as well as I do. Career Builder constantly surveys employers and recruiters to find out what do they think. And for people listening, if you're listening now or on the replay, you can find these things as well. So it's not like it's some kind of a secret. You can just go there and get this information. But one of the things that is really going to take you out of the running is if they find out you're lying. And today there are so many things with the background checks that it's just so easy to find out. I don't know why people do it, but supposedly I don't know the latest percentages, but it's not like it's 10% of people that lie, right?

[00:26:30.540] - Lynne

Yeah. You do have to be Truthful. I got a frog in my throat here.

[00:26:35.290] - Annette

Sorry. I know. Coughing, I feel your pain.

[00:26:40.510] - Lynne

You do have to be Truthful because people do do background checks. Absolutely. Positively. And I think I might have heard they go back seven years or something like that. I don't know how many years.

[00:26:57.070] - Annette

You know what? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I haven't looked at anything about that recently.

[00:27:05.190] - Lynne

Okay. So another thing that I kind of tune into on resumes is checkmarks bullet points, arrows and whatnot. It's one thing on the pretty resume for humans, but I only use a solid black bullet points for the apps can tracking system. If you think about it, if you were to take your resume and take it down to a. Txt file, those black bullet points actually turn into asterisks, but I have not seem to have had any problems with the solid black bullet points, but I make sure that I don't have any check marks or anything like that.

[00:27:55.880] - Annette

Yeah, it's something I used to create those for my clients. I used to create the ASCII resumes that I would give them as well, which is the plain text with nothing. And I had to learn how to format them and make those look as pretty as you can. But we have a question from Robert here. Do you have any samples we could look at for comparison ATS versus pretty for human? So is there some place Lynne, do you have examples of that on your website or your website?

[00:28:28.670] - Lynne

Believe it or not. Okay. I just use my LinkedIn profile. All my work comes in from referrals to me, but I do have the nonprofit website, which is greatcareersphl.org. And I have to say no, I actually don't have any samples of what that looks like. But I do give full blown workshops on what I call beating the applicant tracking system. I think we all try to do a little bit.

[00:28:58.860] - Annette

I just spoke for the job seeking group on Tuesday night about LinkedIn building a brand on LinkedIn. But you, I would say, do more than anybody else I know as far as that goes.

[00:29:13.210] - Lynne

Well, we started out as the largest job seeker group in the Philadelphia area for in person events. We used to run about 1000 in person events a year. So once the pandemic hit, we became an all virtual organization. We are a 501 nonprofit, and we are volunteer run. We have 19, I think, online chapters, and we are doing things on Zoom and Clubhouse. Now, we are not meeting in person, so we keep our members safe, our volunteers safe and whatnot. But if anybody goes to Greatcareersphl.org and hits up our events page, there is a section that has the registration with the little pictures next to it. And some events are free and other events are free if you're a member. We have an amazing team of people, and we have such incredible speakers of subject matter experts, and I get them from around the world. So it's just wonderful to actually be in this virtual environment.

[00:30:28.670] - Annette

Yeah. That's the one thing that I do like about one of the very few things that have sort of been a side effect of the pandemic is that a lot of groups like yours are virtual, and they're able to attract not only speakers from all different parts of the country, in fact, the world, but also it's available to job seekers who are all over the place. And I know that your group does phenomenal work, and even the paid membership is really nominal. So I would suggest everybody check that out as we're getting sort of closer to the end. There is one question that we haven't gotten to, and it's about software tools that job seekers can use to analyze the text and job description. So maybe you can give a little advice on that.

[00:31:22.230] - Lynne

Sure. I use Wordart.com, and I copy and paste the job description into Word art, and you can get a list by number of what the keywords are that are being pulled out. And then if you click on the little red visualize button, then you have a Word cloud, and that's a free software tool. The other thing is Jobscan. Dot Co is a wonderful platform for this, but there's a cost to it after you use your freebies to test and try it. But if you have a good solid base resume and you get those keywords in there and you have to get the right synonym of the keyword. It's a big difference between project manager and project management. There's a difference between budget, budgets and budgeting if you look up these keywords on LinkedIn. So if you have a solid base, resume with the keywords based upon the best match for LinkedIn, that matches your skills, and then you flip those out to match the job description. So let's say budget is the best word in LinkedIn. But if budgeting is used in the job description, then you just add an ing. That's one way of making it more matchy.

[00:32:49.650] - Lynne

But those are the couple tools that I use. But I do show my clients how to do it manually because you have to carefully read job descriptions anyway.

[00:33:04.130] - Annette

Yeah.

[00:33:06.670] - Lynne

On the back end. What do you use in it?

[00:33:09.030] - Annette

Well, I like skill Skillsyncher I don't use it all the time. It's kind of like Jobscan, but it's a lot cheaper, I think. I don't use it all the time, but I do use it sometimes. But I learned about that word art quite a few years ago. I used to use that myself. And I'm with you. I do have sometimes people ask me about having different resumes and, well, I'm not a big advocate of that because if you're applying to similar positions. But I love the idea of tweaking it. And I have told clients that I work with like I don't put passionate ever on a resume because I know that some recruiters hate it. But if I tell them, if you see it ten times in the job description, you might want to just take out something else and put in passionate because you do want to think about that. But there's so much we could talk about this for hours and hours.

[00:34:20.360] - Lynne

So we covered a lot of ground, but we didn't cover everything. No.

[00:34:24.250] - Annette

Well, as we are winding down here, is there anything that you would want to mention that I haven't asked you that we haven't discussed already?

[00:34:33.530] - Lynne

Well, yeah, I guess some applications require you to put in a Word document and others require a PDF. Now if you're going to put in a PDF, make sure that it is a readable PDF and not an image. So if I were to take a picture of the resume with my phone, that would be an image and it's non readable. If I were to take my resume and scan it through my scanner again, that is an image. So what you need to do is in the Word document. If they want a PDF, you have to read the instructions, follow the instructions, go File Print Save as PDF. And that way you have a readable PDF. You also have to format your work experiences in a certain way because it needs to go into the fields of the database. So the first line is company name. Comma, city. Comma, two character state tab over to the dates. And then underneath you put the job title the bots want to extract that information so that it goes properly into fields. Sometimes people put their job title first before the company name and I think best practices and tips from my personal experience are to do it just like I suggested when I have sections on a resume that are kind of along the lines of LinkedIn.

[00:36:14.050] - Lynne

So LinkedIn calls a work experience a synonym of that would be professional experience. So that's okay. Or experience when it gets to honors and awards. Awards and honors, I think that's kind of exchangeable. So if you think about it, over 810,000,000 people in the world are on LinkedIn. That's kind of the gold standard. So you want to try and mirror your section titles that match LinkedIn at least for the deconstructed resume for the ATS. Now I do a slightly different tweak on that on a pretty resume for humans. I do put career highlights and core competencies, low core competencies, otherwise known as skills. But you have to move the skills on the ATS resume down to the bottom of the list of your whole resume versus I like them up front and top in the first half of the first page on a pretty resume for humans. So there's all these little idiosyncrasies and what ifs and it depends and all that. So you need to learn these tips from career coaches. Hire a career coach like Annette or myself or we have amazing colleagues out there, too. And guess what, folks? There's only 24 hours in a day and that can only take on so many clients.

[00:37:45.370] - Lynne

I can only take on so many clients. So there are specialists out there and tap into their knowledge and expertise.

[00:37:53.230] - Annette

Yeah, I agree with you completely. There are so many people that are out there to help you so thank you so much for your time. Lynne. It's been so great chatting with you and I know our audience has learned a lot. Thank you, everyone, for being there. Whoever's listening to right now or on the replay, I know a lot of people watch it on the replay and thank you so much and have a great rest of your day.

[00:38:20.910] - Lynne

All right. Thanks so much for having me. You too.

[00:38:32.450] - Annette

Thanks again for joining me for this episode of smarter career news podcast. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please Subscribe.